Welcome to the art of marketing operations a tailor podcast here you
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Welcome to the art of marketing operations, a tailor podcast, I'm Glen,
bottomly and today my guest is Brook Fits Chief Marketing Officer at profile
by Sandford a health and nutrition plan that works with clients to create a
custom meal plan based on your goals, health conditions, personal preferences
and genetics. The profile plan is simple: To follow, promotes sustainable
lifestyle change and provides the support you need to find success.
Profile has helped more than two hundred thousand members lose more than
three million pounds and get started living a healthy lifestyle. Thanks for
joining you today, Brook thanks for having me glad the Brook your career
started in Multi Media Web Development Building Websites, but then your career
blossomed and your experiences grew rapidly, with growing responsibilities
across all marketing areas, like email campaigns and print communications,
newsletters and across multiple industries like financial and now, of
course, weight loss and you've mentioned that marketing not only just
serves the organization, but it serves the industries to. Can you expand on
this a bit for our audience? Yeah, you back one. I think that this notion that
marketers are not only marketing for their brands, but also the industry
that they serve can be applied across any industry or genre. I'll. Take my
financial services days, for example, where educating consumers on the right
way to manage credit or the right way to access credit from a marketers
perspective, our brand really lent well to a good solution for consumers.
However, we are a little bit out of our time and so really helping to educate a
moveant industry in the direction that are grand and that our product served
was really part of that overall effort, and so I feel the same as in in weight
loss where the old way of thinking about weight loss is still very present
and the way that consumers think about weigh loss. However, our solutions,
such as the solution that profile provides with a lasting lifestyle
change. It is really the direction that the industry is moving in and and
profiles very much part of the conversation, but we need to make sure
that we're doing our job to educate consumers about the right ways to be
thinking about these topics, so that our grand on our product can be a part
of what they're looking for. But you know today, we have a lot of consumers,
we're still thinking about weight losses as traditional weight loss and
as part of that, a lot of ginks get thrown in there and a lot of different
products and brands that might serve a short term need. However, what
consumers really want is that long, lasting lifestyle change, but it's very
hard to have both messages in the space and so as marketers. We your best to
try and and move industries in the direction that we need to go in order
for our brands to be present and part of that conversation. Another great
example is vaccinations during this time being part of Culcutta. You know
making sure that we're doing our job as marketers to educate and form on the
healthy things that consumers can be doing to help protect themselves and
make themselves safe in this space, and so you know outside of Covin nineteen
vaccination prior to Ovid. You know working in health care as a marketer. A
lot of our job was preventative health, and so you would see a lot of the
messages and a lot of the brand awareness that was taking place was
really more around industry information versus just our brand, and so I think
it's very important as organizations and as marketers that we make the
message as much more about the inistore and what were consumers are at and what
consumers are navy versus. Just our brands, that's interesting, and I could
see the interesting challenge there and when you think about the way that you
communicate to your consumers, how do you sort of differentiate between, as
you stated, that there is such a different way that what profile is
doing in what the industry is trying to do to communicate the differences
between the new approach that you're espousing for weight laws to the past?
So in other words, how do you communicate and change your marketing
so that when a consumer hears it, it's not just another promise, but that it's
actually education to your point showing more of a lifestyle change?
What's the challenge there from a communications perspective, yeah really
great points Glen, and what we've learned is that one of the biggest
challenges we have been part of the weight lest industry is the distress
that consumers have with weight, loss, brands and just weight loss in general.
The biggest wait, less audience that is out. There is the do it yourself
audience, and these would be consumers who take upon themselves whether it is
to do online research, purchase books or kind of off the shelf types of
programs that they can do on their own because they believe that if they do it
on their own, they trust themselves. And it's part of that mental combat
that I tried something from a brand before and it hasn't worked, and it
might have been several different brands that hasn't worked. So we're
really approaching it from a person perspective, because there's so much
distrust in this industry. We're really shifting our tactics to be first brain
awareness, making sure that our brand is present in our communities and then,
following that up with real, like people, whether it's our members that
have had success or whether it is our health coaches that help our members
have success. Having them tell their stories at the local level and having
executing on local level. Marketing is really where we found is the sweet spot
for combating that distrust. We found that consumers would rather write by
brands from people orsus ADS and so there's a definitely a balance there,
because we do need that brand awareness to be top of mind within our
communities, but we know when it comes down to actually executing and
generating leads for organization. It really comes down to that high touch
personal relationship that someone can identify with on a local level. That's
really where we found is the best way to approach it. One area, with one
exception, in my opinion, is really sem, so when we're looking at purchasing key
words or ads within digital, we still know that there's a large percentage of
consumers who are typing in the words weight loss, and so what we're finding
is if we can meet them, where they're at in their thought process and start
to educate them through our drift funnel and sales cycle about its yes,
you may think it's about weight loss, but what we're really serving is a
lifestyle change and we're here to help you identify and use tools with our
health coaching and our food to help. You learn how to do that on your own
eventually, but we know that a lot of times when consumers do it on their own
ends, up being a short term, win long term failure, and so often we end up
gaining that way back, and so we've really found a great formula profile to
help consumers not only get started with their weight last journey, I make
it a lifestyle change that can be with them for the rest of their lives.
That's really fascinating, as you are described that, in terms of you, you've
really widened the view of your consumer in terms of how they are
educating themselves so, whether they're di Y, you know whether they are
just now starting the you know the research process to understand how they
can go about their own weight loss journey, but that, as you mentioned in
the SEM side, you're actually trying to intercept that consumer at that
earliest stage, so that that education happens far up the funnel quote.
Unquote for that consumer funnel in that journey that that consumer or the
profile user would actually have you're trying to catch them right at the very
beginning, so that as they're literally typing in weight laws you're starting
to educate them right now. At that point they may or may not know profile.
They may not have actually come to the profile site yet, but you're trying to
influence them read at that earliest stage, so that you can help to shape
them almost in this in a sense of a public service. You know, obviously you
would want them to come to profile because of the unique approach that
profile has, but you're really trying to capture that an influence that, at
the very beginning, yeah that's right when what we're trying to look for as
meeting the consumer where they're at, even though that might not always be
what our solution is, we want to make sure that we're part of the
conversation and we're not for everyone. I would challenge any brand to identify
if they truly are for every single person out there, and I think that, if
that's, if the answer is yes, I think we probably need to do a little bit
more diggin into who were really serving and in what solution we're
solving for, because I think it's very hard to be something for everyone. And
so what we're really trying to do is is meet the consumers who think they need
that short term win with weight loss and really help educate them and
gravitate their thinking towards more that long term. Success which we know
what they're really looking for yeah wonderful now brook. I know that you
believe that marketing efforts today need to be fully integrated across all
aspects of a business. So if we shift our conversation a bit, let's look at
the extensive experiences that you have had in your career across multiple
industries. And so can you share some of the unique approaches in the
differences on how you've seen marketing teams approach investments
for Growth Yeah. I have a very colorful background. Everything from working for
advertising agency that specialized in in agricultural communication and
marketing all the way to where I'm at now with weight loss. I've had the auto
industry in there and a lot of financial services and start up digital
products in between. So I think just going back to to my days at the
marketing firm, where we were trying to educate mostly cooperatives and
implement dealers within the agriculture space. That communication
was of the utmost importance and to be the marketing partner in an industry
that traditionally wasn't as familiar with marketing or really investing in
marketing tactics. What we found is where we could win is again: it's a
high touch that personal relationship, and so we we went out on the road and
put a lot of investment in our people, making those personal connections. We
also did a large investment with our print media because we do believe,
especially in that space, that there're still individuals that are picking up
that magazine, especially when it's coming from a trusted partner like
they're cooperative in their community or maybe even just a local business
within the community. So, depending on who is executing on the tactics, I
think it can look very differently. I do believe that there is absolutely a
place for print marketing and, like I said in these smaller communities
coming from a trusted source. It is getting red and it is the way that
people are still being informed in these spaces if I fast forward a little
bit into financial services. So much of what we did was all ADITI based. We
worked with Rans and markets all over the world, and so working with your
visa and your Master Card and your discover card organizations all over
really forced us in the direction of investing in a lot of platforms that
were digitally based. One of the best marketing tactics that we were able to
execute really not only came from the drift champions that we put together,
that included email but also affiliated marketing and making sure that we have
really great partners who are spreading the words about our brands in online
content and so investing a lot. If you're additional, like. I think that
that's where it's at it's really about how to inject yourself interested
content online, not any content but trusted content and then fast
forwarding to you know: Selling Automotive Online at cars for sale com.
We really us a lot in man power. We had out bound call center that was calling
on dealerships across the country to help inform them on how we could help
them advertise their vehicles online and get them more LE volume, and we
invested a tremendous amount of so into our our platform itself, so that we
even make sure that our vehicles would be served up when consumers were
searching for those particular mixer models. So investing in people as well
as that back and platform to help support those efforts. So is very
important for that industry and then coming over to health care. I think
what I've learned and what I've seen here is big brand is really probably
the biggest investment, as well as social platforms and also print is
still a vital piece of health care, making sure that patients and potential
patients in our communities are well aware of the products services and
maybe just kind of nudging them a little bit to make sure that they're
getting in or their preventative health checks and vaccinations. So I think it
really depends on the industry, the organization, but I've really seen
investments across the board and people processes platforms. In addition to all
the advertising tactics for the companies that I worked for, yeah,
that's excellent in the rich experience that you have in all of those
industries, I think, is obviously going to you know, pay dividends here for you
know at profile, but I think it's also really important for our audience
members to hear as well a couple of things that I took away from from your
response to their brook, and that is that you know the investment in people.
Whatever that looks like in your individual business is that your team
is that your distributors is that the market, whatever that notion is
investments in people, is not going anywhere. That's still going to be so
critical to growth, but what I also heard that you said was that how
important print is and how you have found that that still is so important.
You know and so critical to business growth today and and will continue to
be in the future, and you know you mentioned sem, and you also mentioned
Seo in the in the focus and importance of social, and I think that that's
really where so many of our audience. Members are as well as trying to find
the right mix the investment mix across all of those platforms as well as you
know, for their brand. And so do you have any recommendations in terms of
when you think of all of those levers that you can pull as a c Mo Seo, sem
investments in people, social, the brand print, etc. What are some of the
methods that you use or the fun processes that you go through to
evaluate where you move your investment dollars across those various platforms?
Great Question Land, like I said before, I think that is methodology is probably
unique to every industry in every business and I think that I've
approached it a little bit differently for each of the organizations that I've
worked for, but it really starts with budget and so as we're looking at our
budget and where we can get the most pain or buck. I want to make sure that
we're not being siloed into one direction or another. I fully believed
in a holistic approach to marketing and advertising, and that includes
investing in our platforms as well as some of the external industry
partnerships that might need to be made as part of that strategy, and so as
you're looking at your budget and really identifying you know for us,
it's really about getting leaves for our franchise, es and or corporate
stores. And so one of the challenges when I came up or was that paper were
really spending a lot of money and social or Lee Gen. but what we're
finding is the leaves that were getting. They just don't know who we are and so
really identifying that brand awareness was an investment that we need to need
it to make and looking at our competitors and kind of what we were up
against. We really identified having an influencer that was noteworthy or
someone could recognize that to create that brand awareness and partnery with
someone else's brand might give us the best thing for a book. So we was going
to be brand awareness, also looking for opportunities to partner with an
influence, or that could help give us that lift with their audience. And so
we did go searching for some influencers and we were able to partner
with three influencers for to represent the profile grand out of the gate. We
Kid Emmett Smith, who really helped us through the first part of two thousand
and twenty one really lover to at Super Bowl campaign and a super powl spot
that we had and then a few other influencers on the music side. Lady, a
in the the country genre and Magan trainer. Who is more in that
alternative side. They had some their brands, really fit nicely with what
we're looking to do with our approach to health and Wallace, and they were
really excited to help spread the word and help leverage their audience as
part of our grand awareness efforts. And so we started on that journey at
the beginning of two thousand and twenty one and we're just about getting
wrapped up here. But that's just one example of when looking at you know
what our budget is, where our investments be to go. That's just a tip
of the iceberg of all of the pieces that we needed to execute from a brand
awareness and allegiant perspective of compile, as well as business
development. So we had some boots on the ground tactics. We also had our
direct social and Lee Gen bys. We did a lot of digital, and so there was a lot
of execute. We did a lot of print radio advertising, art marring with local
radio show hosts. We did a broadcast, we did a t TT, we did straine radio,
and so you name your tactic. We really did a holistic and to end strategy in
terms of where we were hitting consumers. It was if it could hear us
if they could see us and if they could engage with us. We wanted to make sure
that our brand was a part of that ecosystem. I love the extensiveness and
I think that, even in your response, there, you described so many various
tactics and techniques which I think reinforce your own stance about the
importance of holistic approaches to investments in marketing. So I applaud
you for that. I think that's outstanding, and so, when you think
about the time now that you have been in the healthcare industry and when
you've shifted from you know your previous career experiences, can you
share whither audience? Something may be unexpected about your current
business or the weight loss market, or something that you maybe didn't
anticipate when you initially started sure I think at the most surprising
thing to me as I relates to weight loss was white. I talked about for the
distrust in the industry and in combating distress. It's it was less
about. You know getting the word out there as much as it is is when you get
the word out there. We're also up against some challenging mind, sets out
there that just don't trust way off, and so I think that that was the most
surprising thing for me in thisindustry that, as it relates to health care. On
the same for health side, I think I wasn't aware of maybe the lack of CR
tools that were in health care and after going to and being a part of many
focus groups across the country for health care systems. It's not a normal
or a large healthcare system not to have a full kind of end n, patient
journey or cm profile were no different. We had to build our dirt campaigns from
the ground up. You know everything from just our simple text and email messages,
all the way to the full end and funnel build from acquisition all the way
through nurturing our members, and so I think that that was surprising for me,
especially coming from a a digital startup space. That's just something!
That's that's what you do! That's how you build your businesses, but for some
of these industries that have been around for a while. That's just kind of
this, the secondary piece of what they're trying to do and so trying to
become a priority amongst all the operation. Priorities, I think is, is a
challenge in the health charecter space. I think it's getting better and I think
that holcar organizations are identifying ways that are able to reach
consumers in different ways. I think digital health care is kind of pushing
that a little bit. I think ovid pushed it a little bit, and so I think it's
Orsen es to think a little bit differently about how we prioritize
communication and marketing with our potential consumers, as well as our
current patients and members. I could definitely understand that how you just
described that in the sense that if there was a patient journey, meaning
there is a patient coming in what is the journey that they're actually
taking? There has probably been so many investments in that journey, but, as
you described in the in the weight loss space, this person may not be taking
that traditional patient journey. You know they are doing the research
themselves, their you know, reading books they are reaching out to medical
experts, etc. So I can understand that difference as you described it and to
your point about that lank of carm tool, especially when you're coming from a
digital background where you sort of live and breathe digital all day long.
I could understand how jarring that would be. Have there been other
challenges that your marketing operations team has faced as you're
marketing? Your service is directly to consumers, for example, you know
privacy or or Phi for protected health information. Have there been other
unique things that you've had to face? Yeah, I think, on the health care side,
absolutely what I like to call on arrows have hit bus, really guard rails
for all markers, and I think the one thing that's nice is that we're all in
the same boat, and so it's not as much of a road block as it is just part of
our every day, builds around hippa or what all health care organizations face,
and so we're not alone in that it, and so it's just kind of part of what we do
on the way. Loft side me don't have as much restrictions as it relates to
hip a compliance just mostly because we were not a health care organization. We
might be a part of a health co organization, but our systems and our
processes are different than that of a health care system, and so we have
certain things that we still need to find guidance and, for example, you
know. Cans Fan, which is part of all marketers day to day is another example.
FACEBOOK has now just recently put more restrictions on targeting, so I think
we'll always have some of these challenges, as it relates to marketing
and communicating to our consumers, our patients or members. But I think the
the reassuring thing is that we're not in this alone that our competitors are
also in in that same space and have those same challenges and opportunities
to overcome, and so I think that, like I said not so much as a road block, but
just creating the guard rails in which we can and cannot communicate. What we
can and cannot communicate is how I look at it. I think financial services,
for me is probably the most strict as it relates to what you can say, not so
much from a distribution perspective, which I think is really where health
care is, that it's restricting the distribution in which you kind of can't
communicate where on the financial service aside, distribution is as isn't
as much of a challenge as what you say is very important and putting card
rails around your words and how you position. Those words are it's much
more important to me have to be more cognisant about our approach with the
message itself, so I think industry to industry it's a little bit different,
but as marketers were always going to have garboil that we need to adapt and
adjust to, and I think it's also important that we don't put all of our
ex am one basket. I think face book in some of the challenges that are coming
down the pipe here with social. It is a great example of why we need to be
dispersing or our tactics. I like the phrase you know not too many, all of
your eggs in one basket so to speak. I think that that's very, very good
advice in salient to this conversation and then have you found that these
challenges are they then feeding back sort of like as a feedback blew back to
your teams. You know creative efforts. I think it obviously goes back to, as
you were saying, stating about the the importance of education capturing that
early on, but talk to us a little bit about how how you're, using that
feedback, loop and and those challenges to then feed back to how you're
actually creating the creative messaging the creative. At that your
existing consumers and perspective consumers see yeah Yo, but I think it
really comes back to having really good processes and people in places part of
those processes. So you want to make sure that you've got some key players,
legal in compliance being one of them, as well as our industry experts, so a
profile. For example, we make sure that our the registered Dietitian and our
PhD their part of our content review process. We make sure that we get legal
eyes on everything that we put out. A big part of what we do is making sure
that with our promotions and the deals that we have running on a regular basis
that change on a regular basis, but we have the appropriate disclaimers in
place and that we do have a review process of place. Another platform that
we put in place a process that we put in place or to allow our franchise es
to submit and creative and Collara review through our team. So we have a
mouthing compliance process in which they submit the creative pieces into us.
We review not only from a brand positioning perspective, making sure
that they're using our correct brand assets that they're not using fonts and
images and logos and colors, inappropriately that it's all following
our brand standard, but also that it has the correct disclaimers in place to
make sure that we are being compliant with what we've sent in place or rules
and regulatory purposes. So we do have a marketing compliance process that we
use for them. No, making sure that we have more key players in place to help
us ensure that we're staying within those bar brails and then continuing on
that acquisition journey. So now your perspective, consumer has seen the
brand have gone through. You know probably multiple touch points and
understanding and researching it they've. You know read and reviewed
disclaimers, etc and now they're interested in potentially taking that
next step. I understand that profile has some unique ways that you're trying
to encourage trial and service adoption. So can you share with our audience a
little bit about some of those unique methods yeah? Well, we are, after
really studying in our consumer base and understanding where some of our
acquisition opportunities were it really lent itself into providing an
opportunity, or
not so difficult of entry into trying our solutions, because, again so much
distrust in this industry has really led people to be cautious, on choosing
Frans and so working on piloting and developing a solution that allows
consumers to try our brand for a few weeks and then order to graduate on to
our manium services if they should, if they so choose, we're, also piloting a
what we're calling a basic plan that is more for that diy audience to try our
program without having a health coach near them just sample our food to
sample our program and our plan, and at which point we do believe that they
will want to upgrade to that premium solution after they have an opportunity
to try us. So we did a lot of studies that really led to this effort that set
you know. Consumers would be willing to try US if there were more n a trial in
place. Really, it's allowing them to test rot the car before they purchased
the car, as well as giving them something that they can do on their own,
because a lot of consumers don't really know what health coaching is or whether
or not they need it, and so, if we can get them to a point of entry, a little
bit easier, an break down some of those barriers. We believe, then, through our
funnel up selling more of what those value at services that we have, that we
know actually are going to lend to that lifetime change. That's really what
this is felt for, and so we're going to be launching this pilot and a coming
month to really learn whether or not the opportunities that we identified
through this research are really going to lend towards behavior and so looking
forward to learning more about whether or not this kind of low cost low entry
solution is going to help with our acquisition model, as well as a
sustainability of our membership bottel and maybe were teaing some members a
little bit longer with a different type of solution that me somewhere they're
at I understand, and then I would imagine based on what you just said.
You mentioned retention and the importance of that. I would imagine
that this pilot in some of these unique acquisition methods that you're
deploying I would imagine that these are leading to different ways that you
are looking at measurement and maybe metrics. So can you offer our audience
any advice in terms of how you're looking at you know metrics for
acquisition today, and it may be more broadly what metrics are in your
business right now? What are the most important metrics that you look at, so
it really starts with impressions right every in the digital space. We really
look at you know how many impressions can we get our brand in front of how
many impressions can we get our message in front of, and so we start by really
building out those oppressions metrics, and we start with. We want to make sure
that our brand impression is in front of millions of consumers from there. We
want to at least get a percentage of those
consumers to then transition and click through to read more information about
profile and who we are and so really looking at more specific types of
content, what we call gated content that really speaks to whatever the
consumer is looking for. So if we have impressions brain impressions in place
that talk about someone who is looking for some, let's just say protein, but
they're, really interested in learning about Politian and making sure that we
have content in those places to serve up those impressions that allows them
to clip through and then we would serve up as part of that funnel. We would
serve up some content that they could download like giving us some
information so that then we could contact them later and tell them more
about our services and where our services kind of meet them, where
they're at in erther search for proteins. So it goes from impressions
to clicks to Legion when they give us their information and then that lead
goes into our long term funnel and that funnel then gets fed lots of content.
It has some phone direct phone calls text messages, emails, SMS like and
mentioned in so then consumer will stay in that funnel for a period of time
until transitioning into a new funnel based on their behaviors on, while
they're in that sales funnel. So that's kind of how we look at the different
types of metrics that we use. Where is the consumer at those life cycles? I
really look at from a bird side you how many of our court folio is in each of
those stages and then what shall we do to Opro those stages to make sure that
we're getting the consumer all the way from impression to purchase? And you
know what more we can do to improve that along the way you can really learn
a lot by just seeing those metrics and looking at those conversion rates to
identify where you should spend some time, and maybe ancing processes told
improve those conversion rates from from stage to stage I see and then,
when you think about your team and how you are coaching them driving them,
what are some of the ways that you drive maximum performance with your own
marketing operations? Team yeah, I think that's a really good question and
what we look at is when we see those conversion wit, we really look to find
where we're, maybe there's some more opportunity from margin and those
conversion rates, and so that might be in Fregene. Our messaging is the
messaging on the right types of message and we've identify based on where the
consumer is that in that life cycle that that funnel, we may need to
enhance the messaging to make sure it's a higher converting sort of peace and
it gets sent to move down the funnel. We also look at. Are we getting the
right people in the funnel? So it is it an upfront opportunity that we have?
Are we talking to the right people or you know, for way loss many times. Our
audience is really in that forty five to sixty five year old, female audience-
and you know I don't know if I really want to be spending money on eighteen
year, old football player going to college, and so those are the things
that we look at is our opportunity to improve our targeting in that space. We
do also have a male channel, so we identify that we needed to break out
our audiences into a little bit more of a specific content package, and so we
have a male audience that we like to call our dudes that need to lose and
they have a sales funnel that we work then through to make sure that the
content and solution is relative to them, because it looks very different
for them than it does or what we call our maiden mamas. And so those are
women who are looking to get pregnant, are pregnant or have recently had a
baby, and we have solutions that are specific to their situations, and so we
have some of these unique audiences that we have found that making content
specific for them is so important in moving them through those specific
funnels again trying to be one thing for everyone. That probably has it
served any organization well and so the better that we can hold our strategy in
our content. Marketing to specific audiencess are better for them and Aner
Organization. That's excellent! Brook! I love the your persona names, your
audience names. Those are great. I love that so b before we wrap up today's
episode. What is the main takeaway that you want to leave our audience with in
understanding the challenges facing marketing operations executives? Today,
I think, in the last fifteen years I've learned that there is no one solution
for one organization, one industry or one business. I think that making sure
that the strategy is an end to end strategy not only from your marketing
and advertising, but do your products lend well to what you're saying and so
making sure that, from a advertising product business solution in a consumer
solution in your operations, making sure that that is a cohesive process.
That you're communicating the same message across the board, but also
making sure that you're speaking to the right people at the right time, making
sure that you're not having a blanket message to everyone and that you're
really honing in on those specific audiences and taking a step back. And I
got to find. Maybe the solution that you have is specific towards one genre.
Well, it might be looked at different by another shot round. You might have
to change your messaging and your approach and even your tactics based on
those different audiences, and so it really comes down to not putting all of
your eggs in one basket and make you sure that your end to end marketing and
sales approach. It is really thought, after that, you're not putting too much
investment in one area and that you're really looking at it from an end to end
perspective. Wonderful, thank you brook and well that wraps up this episode of
the art of marketing operations. Thank you so much for joining us today, Brook
and until next time stay safe, take care and thank you all for listening.
Thank you for listening to the art of marketing operations brought to you by
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