Welcome to the art of marketing operations, a tailor podcast. Here you can
grow your knowledge about marketing operations, listen to ideas and strategies to help you
scale, grow and optimize your efficiency, drive your speed to market and enrich
your work life. Let's get to it. Welcome to the art of marketing
operations, a tailor podcast. I'm Glen bottomly, and today my guest is
Chloe Pot, senior marketing operations manager at localize, the most loved translation management
software which allows you to eliminate the hassle of localization by providing tools to automate,
integrate and better manage your language translations from mobile APPs, games, software
and more. Thanks for joining me today, chloe. I'm happy to be
here. Glen, thanks for having me, you bet well. Before we
get started, I always like to share something interesting about each of our guests,
and one of the fascinating things that I've learned about you is that right
now you are living and working full time in France and that you are bilingual
in French and English. So how did your passion from France come about,
and what's the biggest challenge that you've experienced with living overseas? You know it's
an interesting time being being an American expat anywhere in the world. But yes,
so I grew up going to a French immersion school in Chicago. So
French and then and France and the French culture has been a big part of
my life from a very young age and when I made the move officially to
France over ten years ago, some of the most difficult things for me to
adjust who were not actually the language, because I had already spoken the language
from before, but it was more of those cultural nuances that you that you
don't learn when you're not living and immersed in the country, so like where
to buy certain ingredients at a store, or like even where to find ingredients
in a grocery store, how to act in certain situations, what's considered appropriate,
what's not considered appropriate. That was the biggest challenge for me when I
when I first moved to France. Interesting, I have been to France myself
a few times and absolutely love it there. So that is exciting to to
be chatting with you there in France. So now let's move on to marketing
operations. Now you've mentioned that you have been the founding marketing operations higher in
some of your teams in the past and and so I'm sure that when you're
the very first employee in marketing operations for any size company, it comes with
some pretty high expectations and probably some some big challenges to so what advice can
you give our audience on how do you succeed in marketing operations when you're the
only employee, when you have to establish all the processes and procedures and when
others in the organization may not even know what you're supposed to be doing?
That's a great question and it's been the case for me twice. In Two
thousand and twenty one. I did a little job hopping in two thousand and
twenty one and two out of the three companies that I joined I was the
founding mops higher and in both cases you just have to start small. You
are only one person and there's only so much that one human can do,
and my first piece of advice is do not bite off more than you can
chew. Start Small. There's a huge road map ahead, but one of
the first things that I would focus on is the education and enablement within your
organization of what is marketing operations and what is not. Marketing operations and set
that understanding up from the beginning so that you're setting yourself up for success from
the start. What I did when I first joined the localize where I am
now is I hosted like a one hour one one marketing ops. What is
marketing operations? What are some of the tools that we use? What do
we do, what do we not do? And it really helped open the
eyes of our sales APPS team. Even some of our hr like recruiting staff
members attended and it opened their eyes to better understand what marketing APPS does.
But on the the workfront, how do you prioritize a where to start?
What process is to put in place? What tools to sunset or or acquire?
I would actually do an audit, take lay of the land. What
does the marketing team have in place? What are they doing today? What
could be improved? What I mean? They may not have any tools in
place or they may have a dozen tools that need to be streamlined. Ask
yourself as well, what's the sales and marketing alignment like, because marketing ops
needs to have a close relationship with sales and sales ups where one of the
same. We have the same end goal is to help our team be more
efficient by leveraging technology and sales APPs to the same thing for the sales teams.
So that would be my first recommation is do an audit, get a
lay of the land and create a road map for your short term goals,
long, medium term, long term goals. And keep in mind that marketing
operations is a very transversal role in any organization. So don't forget to communicate
Your Road Map in your plan externally to just not just marketing but to sales,
even to product and to engineering, depending on, for example, if
you're if your development team sits under engineering. So that's what I would start
small. My recommendation starts small, doing audit and then take it from there.
I really like the audit idea because not only, as you stated,
you find out what's in place, you also find out what's missing, but
you can also find out what is duplicative, because I know that in some
of my own personal experiences, some tools are bought in, some of the
tools or platforms are doing the same things and then sometimes it's generating, you
know, identic information. Sometimes it's gender eating conflicting information. And the other
thing I really liked in your response there is the ongoing sort of focus in
commitment to communication, because I think in that process of, you know,
sort of ceaselessly, you know, communicating, always making sure that what you're
doing there's transparency, there is alignment, and the more you're communicating your building
relationships, people are learning what you're doing, they are aligning their goals with
your goals and you're also getting the opportunity to make sure that what you're doing
is aligning to what the larger organization needs you to do. Exactly. Excellent.
So let's talk a bit about when we were taught. We're talking a
bit about what's in place, what's not in place, etc. One of
the key areas of that, of course, is Martek Stack. So can
you share a little bit more about how do you approach building out a Martex
Stag, particularly when maybe you're starting with a complete blank slate? What would
you say is the most important tool to have? What's the second most important
tool to have? What are your thoughts there? Starting with an entirely blank
slate? I don't know if that's if I wouldn't want that. I mean,
there's so many options, but in two experiences that I've had this past
year is both. When I was a founding member of the MOPS team,
is they had a stack and place but they was not optimized. And All
marketing offs professionals have their favorite tools. I mean I'm not the first nor
the last to admit it, I certainly do. But you have to pick
something that aligns with the business priorities and each business is different. Where is
your organization focusing their time and money? For some organizations it could be building
new pipeline. Is it customer retention? Is it focusing on product led growth?
Is it brand awareness? I think understanding what the businesses major priority is
at that time will help you define and select what is the first and most
important more text tool that you need to add into your stack. So I
joined a company earlier this year that had a pretty advanced text deck already in
place. They were using it through like external consultants, but they didn't have
anyone internally to optimize it. So the priorities for that company was different than
where I am today, where I joined a company and they have they had
a dozen tools that nothing was integrated. There was no like the company that
I joined this year. They had more than a dozen tools and none of
them were natively connected, so there was no ease of data connection between the
marketing and the sales teams. And so those priorities are going to be different
based on the stage of the of the business that you join. So the
most important tool, I say, is going to be based on what the
business needs are. Focus on making your technology decisions not based on what your
heart is saying, but based on what will help the marketing in the sales
seems to be more efficient and hit their goals, whether that's building new pipeline,
customer attention or brand awareness. Yeah, and if I raise that up
to you know as a layer of abstraction here, you're really talking about alignment.
That Mar text act in and of itself is not a marketing operations thing.
It is a business set of business priorities technologies that drive and propel an
organization forward. It just happens to be owned by a marketing team, you
know, likely with partnership with an IT team, etc. But having that
alignment allows you to do the right thing. And so, and I think
that your comment is really salient here about making sure that if the alignment is
gosh, we don't have enough awareness in this market place, then I'm going
to be focused on top of funnel tools. If I'm really looking at you
know, I need to propel someone through the funnel, but we don't have
any problems with closing or, you know, handoffs to sales or so.
Well, then I'm really in the mid funnel or if it's really the bottom
or the hands off to sales, etc. And so. And as business
changes, I would imagine you've seen this as well. Your Mare text act
builds out and it ebbs and flows with wherever the the business needs to go.
And then, you know, it starts to expand and get bigger.
And so fast forward two years, five years, etc. Now Your Mar
Text Act is bigger. But all of those came on at different times based
on the various needs of the business. Correct. Is that that's been your
experience? Yes, definitely, but as you're more text deck grows and evolves
and gets bigger. It's also very important to keep in mind that bigger is
not always better. Sometimes you do need to say, you know what,
we've had a great run with this tool. It's time to sunset it and
move on. It's just taking up money and bandwidth it and and human hours
to run it, and that's something that I've learned over the years is doing
an audit is not just a one time thing. It's really something that you
need to to do once once a year. A few of the time do
it twice a year, but at least once a year to analyze is the
money that we're investing in each tool within our stack actually bringing us for revenue?
Is it? Is it helping us, or is it hindering us from
hitting our goals? So I completely agree with you. As a company,
Ebbs and flows through their business priorities. Your text act should evolved as well.
If you no longer have that brand awareness issue and you're realizing that your
brand name is already enough out there, you don't need the tool, get
rid of it use it somewhere else. Yeah, I think that's excellent advice
because, you know, we all have limited budgets. You know, we
are all trying to make sure to convince and communicate the value of what we
do across your organization and so, with those limited funds, limited resources,
etc. We need to make sure that, to your point, if something
is no longer providing value, jettison it from the MARTEX stagg reinvest those funds
and something else that will generate those higher degrees of revenue or effective effectiveness in
the organization or, at a minimum, limit your investment in a maybe dying
platform or, you know, something that's providing limited or reducing, you know,
benefit, so that you can free up those funds to then invest in
something that's going to provide more value. Exactly. Yeah, excellent. So
what has been sort of the best ways that you've learned on how marketing operations
and the teams that you have led to support sales and and str you know,
teams? How do you sort of build effective and valuable relationships with sales
leadership? That one has been sure hands on experience. I don't know of
any training course or any pep talk a manager has given me to like teach
me about sales and marketing alignment. It's been hands on deck, just learning
and learning from your mistakes, to to be frank. But in my experience,
in my history, some sales leaders in my past have been great at
building this relationship and others not so supportive. I'm luckily to be a in
a role now where this say, the head of sales is very supportive of
marketing operations and I think one of the reasons why they are is because I've
been able to convince them that sales and marketing, especially marketing APPs, is
on the same team, batting on the same team and we have the same
goals close more deals, want to bring in more money. So I've also
learned through the past to listen to the sales processes and their challenges and help
address them by using marketing technology. I try not to say this is what
marketing needs to do, but more of tell me what you're going through,
what are your sales challenges today, and what can our marketing team and our
marketing text Dec do to help you get further? So it's kind of just
reversing your mindset a little bit. Instead of saying here's with marketings going to
do, it's more of how can your sales challenges, how can we like,
what can we do to help you, because in reality, we are
we marketing and sales, we really are on the same team. We need
to work together and from my experience the best way to do that is to
have an open line of communication, have frequent checkpoints with if you can get
your head of sales, if not, then your str MDR bedrs whatever kind
of Dr Teams you have, have frequent touch points with them, your sales
APPS team. I'm also thankful that today at localized marketing ops and sales opps
sit with sits within the same team. We report into revenue ups. So
we literally have the same like, the same goal as the same oak ours.
So that has been really helpful for me to ensure that building of that
effective relationships with the sales team. Yeah, I think that that's excellent.
The fact that, as you stated, the building the relationship and sharing with
sales and your partners in sales that you're on the same team is excellent advice
because I think we learn something from both groups. Sales will learn from marketing,
you know, whether it be the technology or what, how they are
helping the sales activities, and then marketing helps to refine what they are doing
by understanding what's happening in sales. So it's outstanding advice here. So thank
you. So now let's shift gears just a little bit and let's talk a
little bit about marketing attribution. So when you think about how your marketing efforts
when they are driving success, what's been some of the valuable lessons that you've
learned in your career about how you attribute and, you know, leverage marketing
attribution to define what is working what is not working in your marketing efforts and
what are some of the things that you've learned that you know maybe our audience
could avoid or implement based on your own experiences? Attribution is a huge topic
and it's definitely more one of those more advanced phases of a marketing department.
And on the marketing there's a marketing maturity model that I've seen floating around of
from like stage one to stage four, and marketing attribution typically sits within like
the three and a half four stage. So one and two being like email
drip campaigns lead scoring life cycle and then when you get to three, it's
multi channel. And then for is is attribution. How do you attribute what
is bringing in the most the most revenue, what is allowing your team to
be the most effective? I think it also, I mean almost every question
is it depends on the organization, depends on the product you're selling, it
depends on and how your team is set up. Frequently, what I've seen
work in my experience is, I mean we know there's the first touch attribution
there's a last touch, there's multi touch. My favorite and what I think
is the most relevant in today's business is multi touch attribution, meaning someone can
find your product through an ad or through a Webin ar or through downloading a
piece of content earth or word of mouth or a sales call. There are
so many touch points today too, and I'm referring to be to be business
here. There's so many touch points that can happen for a prospect to become
a customer that it's it's a touchy subject to just flat out say the first
touch that they did when they entered our database is what closed the deal,
or the last touch right before the opportunity was created. For me, it's
going back to this ebb and flow. Is What is important to the business.
And how are you valuating, evaluating the importance of your different marketing campaigns?
For example, if you're hosting a live demo, as like a Webinar,
that might have a higher value to convert a customer than an ungated infographic
about a product. So multitouch. What multi touch attribution allows you to do
is to give different weights, different point values, essentially two different touches.
Maybe a sales engage a sales cadence email has a certain value and that infographic
is a little lower. But those attending a Webinar are tending at watching a
demo, visiting certain pages have higher value point values. So you really have
to sit down with your sales team and your marketing leadership and say, what
are we deciding as a company, as a department of what is the most
important for our customer conversion? And so the pitfalls to avoid is don't stay
sighload. It's not a it's not a marketing decision. It really is something
that you have to do in collaboration with your sales team because there are multi
their various touch points that just the sales organization has did in connections cadence,
email cadences, phone touches. How do those vary in point values versus what
the marketing point values are? And if you have if you're selling a B
to be product has a free trial, maybe that is a hute. If
they take out a free trial, maybe that's where you you attribute most of
your your success to if they become a customer. So I think again,
it really depends on the company, on the product, but don't stay siloed.
Definitely not. I would involve as many heads of departments as you can
on deciding what is the most successful in your customer journey. And I think
also that, you know, evaluating closed sales. If you've got, if
you just look at the last you know, hundred closed one accounts or whatever
number is relevant, ten, fifty, whatever the number is, and evaluate
those individual customers across the touch points that they themselves took, you know,
you may find eighty percent of the last I'm just again using a number of
a hundred, the last one hundred customers, eighty percent of them all used
the trial version to your point. In terms of download, eighty percent of
them all read this piece of content, all of them did Xyz, whatever
those pieces are to your point. And then, if you can then assess
what are those commonalities, you can start to create sort of this picture of
a journey of how that customer likely doesn't mean that this the only path they're
going to take, but it creates this interesting impression or this interesting vision of
that journey that can you replicate that if you can get them, you know,
because my gosh. Or imagine if your data show that ninety eight percent
of your closed one business in a be Tob Environ, ninety eight percent of
them all get the trial. Well, if that was the case, Gush,
you've got to get them to that trial as fast as you can,
because the day to show ninety percent of the time if they get the if
they get the trial, they're going to become a customer. So it's one
of those things just to find out, like, what are those aspects that
are the drivers, and so I love what you're saying is don't be silo
don't and don't necessarily have preconceived notion that. Well, I think it's the
trial, because you might think it's that, but then all of a sudden
the data might show that, wow, that's interesting. Only two percent of
my closed one accounts actually use the trial. Everybody else. Did you know,
Xyz, whatever it was. So it's being open, staying flexible and
because that that multi touch attribution, it can change over time and it as
it should, as it should. Yeah, exactly. Now let's talk a
little bit about life cycle here, because I know that you've mentioned in the
passage you've launched some life cycle models in the past. So can you take
just a moment and explain to our audience what a life cycle model is,
and then how do you sort of use it in why should you know?
Marketing Operations? You know teams should be implementing this? That's a great question.
Life cycle models is, for me, is like one of the skeleton
and frameworks that successful marketing sales teams need to have. And so what is
it? It's it's a framework. It's a path that a lead or contact,
a record, a person, takes from when they enter your database to
when they become a customer. So it's kind of like the circle of life
of a person. Someone new enters the database, what should we do with
them? And the purpose of a life cycle model is to ensure that there's
proper lead management, proper funnel reporting, so that you can determine what your
conversion rates are. How many net new people do I need to enter my
database in order to hit ten million dollars in revenue, for example, because
they the funnel. It looks like a funnel trickles down and you lose people
throughout each step. That's entirely normal, it's expected. But a life cycle
model also helps give a priority to your sales team for follow up on certain
records, on certain people. Life cycle models frequently get rolled out in conjunction,
in conjunction with lead scoring frameworks, and so that lead scoring and life
cycle, they go hand in hand to help a sales team, a sales
person, identify how they should treat that record at that current moment in time
so that marketing or sales can engage with them appropriately based on where they are
in their buyers journey. So I've thought of a few examples. If someone
is a net new lead, a brand new person in your database who's never
been there before, they visit your web page and downloaded a gated inpo graphics
that you get their data. You're not going to want an mdrs to our
business development repp to immediately cold call them and try to hard sell them on
your product. All they've done is downloaded and info graphic. So with life
cycle, a model and lead scoring, you can confidently let that new record
kind of peruse your website, consume a little bit more of your content,
explore what your company has to offer, and then when they start showing you
their buying intent then you can call them. So, say after three days
they keep visiting your website and then they get to the trial page, but
maybe they don't take out that trial, but at least now our sales organization
knows that they're showing more interest in your company and your product. So maybe
then they've moved down the funnel further from like brand new lead to engaged to
marketing qualified. So now in where I am now, anything that's marketing qualified
is fashtracked to our MDR team for follow up. I mean there's a there's
a ton of examples we could we could do it the reverse way. If
you have someone in an active sales opportunity who's showing high signs of using of
buying, this is actually a good time that you do want to reach out
to them and wrap up the sales cycle and close that deep that deal,
rather than staying hands off and just letting it sit there and wait. So
it to me I think it's always the best practice to have marketing and sales
work together on that life cycle model on who qualifies as what stage, together
with your lead scoring to determine what's what's best for the for the sales team
to hit hit ravnevals. Yeah, and I like how you described that.
You know, sort of the fast track that you put to a marketing qualified
lead at whatever point that the prospect, you know, becomes mql. You
know, if they are starting at the top of the funnel and, like
you say, they're just perusing, they're looking a little bit of content,
a little bit of content here, a little bit of content there, they
may not necessarily be a, you know, a prospect, but as they
start showing more buying signals, whatever those buying signals are in your specific case,
or you know use gays or business situation, and then finding that moment,
you know that that that right moment when you can when you can hand
that mql off the sales that's great. But so let's talk a little bit
about the content itself, because you know, as you were describing, that
there's a lot of content that you know, can get consumed along the way.
Could be website content, blog content, thought leadership content, podcast content,
etc. So can you share where their audience how how do you sort
of look at content as a key driver for, you know, marketing operations
and sort of how do you decide which content to create or modify or,
you know, what to improve? Content is key. It's what external people
see as the magnet that pulls them into your product. However, for my
experience mops, mops has role in that content hype is more of a supporting
role, and let me let me explain that. So mops can help analyze
what pieces of content are converting, what's getting the most traction, what's getting
the most visibility, but the actual definition of what is in the content plan
lays outside of my wheelhouse, at least in my role today. So today
we have a content team who heads up what is in our content pipeline?
What are they going to create? How do they improve it? But if
they ever want to know, we're going to write another an ebook on this
topic, which is similar to when we did last year. How did that
one do? That's where mops comes into play and can say here, here
the facts, here the numbers, here's the data, here's how ebook one
did versus Ebook to, here are the different channels that we've promoted it on
and said channel did better than that one. So I think MOPS's role in
content is more on the analysis side of what worked what didn't, but how
to improve the content or what to create, for me, that lies with
our content team and that's for them to delve more into. Well, in
that's that's actually really a powerful response of knowing sort of stay in your lane,
so to speak, and knowing that the creation of the content is is
one thing, but having, from a mob's perspective, the analysis side of
what is or what makes effective content and then feeding that back to your creative
teams or your content teams to then modify that is almost your internal life cycle
of content in a sense, because you know you're really you've got the customer
life cycle, but here you've almost got a content life cycle that you know
if you've got gosh, it just seems that, for whatever reason, when
we do this type of thought leadership piece, you know everybody is reading that
in it always drives, you know, mqls through the funnel really, really
quickly. This other type of content not so much, or infographics not so
much. But that analysis that you can provide is so crucial so that the
content team can can focus on repeating what is what is being successful, what's
working. You have repeat that what's working, but and maybe downplay the pieces
that maybe are less effective. So I think that that's outstanding. And so
let's talk a little bit about leads themselves. So you know what, what
advice would you give to a marketing operations executive WHO's may be interested in implementing
a lead scoring system, or maybe they're right at the start. You know
they're start. They're thinking about just setting up a life cycle model and they're
going through the process. They now want to score these leads, as you
had mentioned. How do you set something like that up? There's a lot
of worksheets out there that are available to help with the breakdown of how to
where to start, but essentially there's there's three things to score on. There's
demographics, firmographics and then web behavior, digital behavior. The demographics and farmographics
lies heavily with the sales team. They are the experts who can tell me,
who can tell marketing operations, who is our target buyer? What are
their job titles? Historically, looking back at at that closed opportunities, at
our customers, who have been our champions in the past, what departments have
they come from? What companies have shown the most success? But also,
based on what their sales objectives are, is the sales team do they need
to focus on certain size companies within certain countries? I know there's a lot
of companies for are moving to this ABM methodology, whereas where I am today.
We're not there yet. We're still quite early on. But our lead
scoring framework, we developed it hand in hand with both our sales and our
product team, because we're actually product led growth. So our product evolves very
frequently based on what our customers ask for. So we've got demographic, firmographic,
and then your digital behavior, which is more lies within marketing and and
take some marketing point of view to define what is high value action on digital
behavior. And that's also changed over the past ten years. Ten years ago,
someone clicked in an email, it was hoa, Howay, let's let's
call them immediately, whereas nowadays there's Bots, there's spam filters, there's I
mean pays. You don't you really don't even know if an email open or
an email click means to me. It doesn't mean anything today. So we
actually don't even include email metrics in our lite scoring framework. US. It's
it's based on conversion and actual web behavior. If they visit our pricing page,
if they take out a trial, that's a huge sign for us.
If they submitted demo, if they attend a Webinar, if they visit certain
integrations pages or certain product pages multiple times within a certain time frame. I
mean you can get really detailed as far as you want, or you can
keep it more simple of they visited a blog or they registered for a Webinar.
So it really depends on again partnering with your sales and possibly product team
to decide. How are you linking the perfect buyer persona to the perfect like
marketing web of Persona, and so it's trying to find the perfect blend of
what is your your perfect what is your mql person that you want to hit
your threshold of Your numeracle scoring value or if it's letters, it could be
letters to push them over to sales. So I would recommend using like a
spreadsheet or we're some sort of like worksheet. You can just Google lead scoring
worksheet and they have all these different things you can check off, like what
are your high value job titles? What are your low value job titles?
One thing that I do like to remind people about lead scoring is that it's
not only positive things. There's also negative things that you can score on.
If someone unsubscribes or marks you a spam or because it's your careers page or
applies for a job. These are things that are not necessarily good that you
don't you don't want to increase their score values. So it's okay to have
negative scores and it's actually helpful for your sales organization to see that. Is
that? Oh well, now they're looking at our careers page and they're applying
for jobs. So maybe I shouldn't waste my time following up with this person.
So that's one thing not not to forget, is that you can decay
a score, you can take score, you can take points away for for
negative behaviors, same with negative demographics. Yeah, and again to your point,
it's give you a richer view of your whoever that prospect is it.
That's excellent. And so now let's sort of cycle back or circle back to
how we began this podcast and talk a little bit about multinational here for a
bit, which is so what what difference is have you uncovered in marketing operations
when working with customers or prospects in, say, the United States, versus
France or other countries, and what have you sort of found that you have
to watch out for when deploying campaigns with, you know, multinational audiences?
It's it's a lot of work. I want to talk a little bit about
just the marketing ops landscape, of like the hiring landscape, and then the
actual marketing ops job, the role in you. I've noticed that anything marketing
ops related in the U, in the EU is slightly trending, like lagging
behind what happens in the US and and North America. I think that's just
because a lot of the tools and technology comes out of the US and there's
a lot more innovation, and so therefore a lot of the talent of marketing
ops hires is either US based or expats who have had working experience in the
US, and so when I've tried hiring for marketing opps roles, a lot
of it comes out of the US. However, having worked in MOPS in
Europe for over ten years now, it's allowed me to also see the leaps
and bounce that marketing operations has taken in Europe. It is growing very fast
and it's just as hot of a market in the US nowadays. So which
is great news from marketing ops. In terms of multinational and multilingual campaigns,
again, same question, same answer. It depends on the company, depends
on the product, it depends on if it's be to B or BC.
My working experience is always been in B tob software and from that particular industry
country. There are certain countries in Europe and across the world, like France,
Italy, Germany in Japan, that I've noticed prefer to have content or
sales talk to them, marketed to them in their native language. So it
adds a dimension of complexity to your marketing campaigns, keeping in mind where people's
country location is, where their company is located, versus where the individual person
is located. For my example, personally, for me localize is a lot
be in company with a headquarter in the US as well. I'm a native
English speaker but I'm based in France. So it adds that complexity of how
do you target and segment appropriately and how do you consider your sales? I
think Netherlands is also a bit like that too. I think they prefer to
have things in Dutch, but I'd have to ask, like my fellow field
marketers in Europe, to confirm. So I think depending on the product you're
selling, if it's be to be software, I tend to lean towards it's
better to do things in native languages. For countries where English is not the
primary language, some cultures like France, Germany Japan prefer to have that sales
relationship in their native language because it's a sign of trust and assign them engagement,
whereas other countries, I think Austria, Switzerland, maybe Spain, are
more flexible and having that those conversations in those business cycles done in English.
So it's it's a treachery path to take. It definitely adds a layer of
complexity, but it's doable and it's exciting. There's a lot to learn about
the business culture in Europe and across the world and and there's a book that
I read a couple months ago by Aaron Mayer called the Culture Map that explains
a lot about the differences in doing business in cross cultural companies and how certain
countries have a more closed off and feeling and would prefer to do business in
their local language versus other countries that are open to doing it in English.
So there's a lot to learn. Yeah, it is and but but super
exciting and dynamic. That that's it's very, very exciting to share and I
always love new books to read, so thank you for that reference. So,
chloe, as as we as we wrap up today's episode, what would
you say is the one key takeaway that you would like to leave our audience
with today about the importance and future of marketing operations? I think the one
key takeaway I'd want to leave is more about being a marketing operations professional in
a small company that's not not quite familiar with marketing operations. I've seen us
in my personal experiences. I've seen it in a lot of people I've hired,
but the whole idea of imposter syndrome bringing people down. Marketing operations is
such a hot industry and a hot sector to be in and it's life is
too short to let the imposter syndrome bring you down. If you're a marketing
operations believe in yourself. Leverage networks that are out there. If you're a
MOPS team of one, or even a MOPS team of ten, if you're
lucky enough to have that situation, there are so many free and and paid
networks out there, podcast just like this one, where you can learn and
and network with people. But the important thing is go with your gut feeling,
explain what you know about marketing operations, and it's also okay to say
you know what. I'm not sure I'll go find out, but I think,
I think, that's my my takeaway messages. Don't let the imposter syndrome
bring you down, and marketing operations. Well, we'll leave it there.
That wraps up this episode of the art of marketing operations. Thank you so
much for joining us today, Chloe, and until next time, stay safe,
take care and thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to the
art of marketing operations, brought to you by Taylor. Don't forget to hit
subscribe in your favorite podcast player. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate,
review and share. Until next time,