Welcome to the art of marketing operations, a tailor podcast. Here you can
grow your knowledge about marketing operations, listen to ideas and strategies to help you
scale, grow and optimize your efficiency, drive your speed to market and enrich
your work life. Let's get to it. Welcome to the art of marketing
operations, a tailor podcast. I'm Glen bottomly, and today my guest is
Chris Musk, marketing operations manager at Buffinian Company, the largest training and coaching
company in North America for real estate professionals. Thanks for joining me today,
Chris. Absolutely it's pleasure to be here. Well, Chris, your first
exposure to marketing operations was working with Marcato. Now you've since been involved in
lots of activities and marketing, creating marketing email and marketing email copy, sales,
enablement, event marketing, marketing, automation, B Two B support,
legion, campaign strategy, you name it. So what is it about marketing
operations that you just love? Yeah, I would. I would have to
say I think it's it's honestly our our contribution to the team. I think
we're we are quite literally like the engine that drives so much of the production
for a whole marketing team and I think our direct, direct line of sights
to revenue as well. Right, like obviously we own a lot of reporting.
Email is typically one of the top performing channels for marketers to to generate
leads and revenue and obviously I know a big part of marketing operations of course,
is email. And so I would say really just those two things,
having that direct line of sight for revenue being a part of that and also,
again, just like the the you know, the essence of that team
building and you know my own fellow marketing team members. They're basically my clients,
right I'm serving them all day long, and so you get really exposed
almost every different part of the department and you just really feel like, Um,
that that central pillar that everyone depends on. And so you know,
for me personally, big team player and I'm always very results focused. So
just having that sense of camaraderie and then also being able to say, you
know, I had a part in marketing hit its number and the company growing
and all that fun jazz. It honestly does get me really psyched up and
I think a part of the reason why I've really found a passion for marketing
operations. That that's that's really really interesting, because I remember when you and
I chatted before, you had mentioned to me that you know, you,
although you know you're driving the marketing operations team, you really feel that you're
a marketer first and that marketing operations is more of the skills said, that
you've acquired, you know, along the way. So can you share just
a little bit more about why that distinction is important to you or why should
even be important to you, know, any marketer? Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I think for myself, you know, as you touched on,
I've been and I've been most areas of marketing that you can be in and
Um, spent, although most of my time, in marketing ops and marketing
automation. But I think why I kind of like to make that distinction is
I I've learned over the years to approach my work trying to think more like
a CEO or a CMO and not be so siloed and thinking as just my
world of marketing operations. Right. So how does the marketing department serve the
entire company? How are we helping generate revenue? How are we helping enable
sales? And that's obviously done through so many different ways, right, whether
it's paid search campaigns, whether it's managing your email database, whether it's a
vent management, Um, you know all the different activities that marketing is doing.
But I think, you know, part of what I've learned to adopt
is more of that global view, like constantly tying back what is my team
working on? How does that contribute to revenue? How does that help us
hit our goals? How are we helping support the company and, Um,
I think on that note, you know, I've definitely noticed at times,
and I've been guilty of it in my past, there's definitely a lot of
you know, marketing ops and Marketing Automation folks where we we do tend to
get a little bit siloed. We almost feel like inside of the marketing department
we're kind of on our own little island and it's it's frankly, easy for
that to happen and it's also easy to think that way and I would I
would encourage folks, Um, you know, especially for other marketing operations people,
to try to adopt that mindset more. And I think we'll touch on
this maybe later, but talking about the growth of marketing operations, executives and
what that career trajectory looks like. And I really think that if people who
want to Um maybe one day get out of marketing ops and run a whole
marketing department or become a director of vice president, so on and so forth,
it's really important to start thinking that way and gain that understanding where,
sure, maybe I'm an expert in marketing ops, but I really understand how
my whole team performs, how it works together as a cohesive unit, and
be able to report that way to higher ups. So I think that will
help you kind of become a little bit more of a marketer and not just
a marketing ops person. Well, and it feels as if that that's one
of the ways that you are adding val you to your team, into your
organization, because I liked your phrase of you know, I like to think
of uh, you know, think like a CEO. I like to think
like a CMO, always trying to envision how is my job, the work
that my team is doing is contributing to overall growth, overall revenue? Uh.
Would you agree with that and, if so, are there other ways
that you sort of focus on trying to improve or add value to the team
or or to the organization. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Um, and
yeah, I mean just to touch on the first part. You know,
I can't stress enough, I think, Um, embracing more of that global
view of your marketing team and not just I'm marketing ops and that's kind of
their own world. Um, make it part of your day to care,
right, care about the content in that email. Is that reflecting your team's,
you know, content strategy for the quarter or for the year? If
not, you know, don't be afraid to push back or provide a suggestion
or you know, Oh, Hey, you know, we're doing these event
logistics and we sponsor this booth and Oh, I saw this other cool company
do this thing. Maybe that's something we could try at our trade shows.
Sure, that's outside of your real house and marketing ops to be helping out
with like events strategies and content strategies. But Um, I think we see
so much right. We see emails going out and landing page copy, promoting
Webinars, promoting events, promoting e books, and when you do it long
enough, you start to really Um, just get it right and you start
to be able to fully understand what's going on. As far as the department
and so I think there's a lot that folks can learn along the way over
the years they do it, and I think there's a lot of value we
can add outside of just managing Marcato and some reporting, or managing part and
some reporting, so on and so forth. Yeah, yeah, that's that's
excellent. I love the constant Um, you know, broadening of the view
uh that both you have, but also how you're expressing and coaching your team
on. I think that's that's super powerful. Uh. It also kind of
makes me think a little bit about you know, as you're as you're coaching
your team. UH, they have to have a sense of you know,
understanding the broad picture, understanding the the technical aspects of what they're doing,
et CETERA. But I would imagine that there's also a sense of balance,
uh, that that you have to sort of convey here too. So,
you know, when you think about balance, you know generally marketing operations leaders
and you know, in team members I have, I have found they often
can can struggle to find balance with their job responsibilities, you know, other
tasks, etcetera. So what strategies have you employed to you know, work
through, you know challenges to balance you know to to help your team understand
how should they uh, you know, obtain balance? Yeah, I would
say one of the you know, one of the biggest things I started doing
is really just prioritize your requests and your workload by the business case, right
and so again, kind of like we touched on earlier, embrace you more
of that revenue, you centric mindset and then working backwards from it with the
request that come in. For example, you might get a request for someone
that's like, Oh, you know, we really we need to start promoting
this e book. It went live a few days ago and I'd love to
do an email campaign around that, by the ways, or anyway to go
live tomorrow, knowing that it's going to require you to work late, and
we've all been there in the world of marketing office right late, late night's,
tight deadlines, you name it, Um but I think it's just being
able to take that step back and say, actually, you know, I'm
working directly with the head of sales right now on a campaign that's going to
directly impact revenue potentially tomorrow. So sorry, they can't go out tomorrow.
I'll tell you what, why don't we meet early next week and we'll find
a time that I can go out trying to meet some middle ground. But
I think that's some big advice I can give people. Is, like we
we get so much thrown at us and, like I was saying earlier,
we're kind of like the engine of a marketing team, if you will,
the central support beam. And like you, you have to be able to
effectively, uh, look at your projects, compartmentalize your days, Um,
and so I would say that's a big part of it. But I think
another are two is, Um you have to be really transparent, in vocal
with your boss and your team members about what those priorities are. Hey,
guys, here's how I approach my work. It's based upon, you know,
deadlines, obviously, requests from higher ups, their level of importance,
but also, more importantly, how that contributes to Legion and Revenue. And
if you know, if I'm getting competing priorities and one's clearly more significantly important
than the other, that's gonna get my attention first. Right, Um,
and I think I'd say as well. Maybe the last point is this one's
tough. You have to learn how to get good at saying no. We
get asked to do so. Much Um and and again, working late nights
type deadlines. You know, it happens all the time and you just you
know, building off what I said earlier, you have to learn to say
no or just say listen, sorry, can't happen today, as you wanted
it, but tell you what, I can get to it in the next
two, three business days, whatever the case is. And that's not easy,
Um, but you know, you have to set those boundaries. Yeah,
I think that's uh, that's really, really good advice, particularly the
piece about saying no. And one of the things that I know, that
I've I learned from a corporate mentor many years ago was that it's always a
question around, Um, is it uh? Do you say no? You
know, but their argument was it's not that it's no, but it's I
can't do that for you, but what I can do, you know,
which which is sort of what you were what you were sort of just describing,
meaning I can't do that. That does not align with our current priorities,
but what I can do for you is x y Z. I always
thought that was really, you know, sort of an interesting way, because
it's not that you're telling the person like just straight out no, you're a
jerk for asking this. Get Out of my office, but it's like,
I understand that's a priority for you as well. Uh, let me understand
that priority, but here's what I can do. Let's see how we can
weave that in and get some of the higher priorities, or the a priorities
done, then moved to some of the B priorities or other things that might
not kind of bubble up to the top. Yeah, it's exact plan and
thank you. Yeah, Um wor did a little bit more elegantly than me,
but I think that's exactly what I was trying to go for. Obviously,
we don't just say no right you. We come with a solution,
but I think right, and I think all those things that we we talked
about, you know, prioritizing by business case, knowing when to push back
on a deadline and say sorry, I can't do that today, but I
can help you this way. Right. And then I think Um, like
we were saying, as well as it's just it all kind of comes together
to help you gain more control and balance in your day and I firmly believe
in exchange you're actually helping your whole team get better balanced. Right, because
once you're once you're transparent and vocal about how you do this stuff and you
start to people understand your workflows, that will start to spread across the team
and I think you're you're indirectly helping the whole department become a little bit more
organized. At least that's the that's the hopeful Ang goal. You know,
I would agree with that. I've also found for me personally, I've also
found that setting those those right boundaries, getting the expectations, it actually then
helps other groups the organization learn how do they work with the marketing department.
Uh, it's by setting those expectations. Now they know, Oh Gosh,
well, that that didn't work very well. I didn't, I didn't.
You know, that was a lot longer. That wasn't, you know,
quite the reaction I was hoping for. If maybe next time I'll provide a
little bit more lead time, or maybe next time I'll come with a little
bit more, you know, focus on how this actually does aligned to overall
corporate revenue goals or what have you. Um. So I think it's also
instructive. To your point, not only helps to balance the team, but
I think it also helps to teach the rest of the organization. How should
you work with, you know, marketing so that we can be an effective
partner for you? Yeah, absolutely, and I'd say the very, very
last thing I touch on that with that is you're also by doing that,
you're you're respecting yourself and you're saying your own boundaries, right, and that's
that's also more the personal side of it. But it's, like I said,
you know, in the world of marketing operations and automation, Um,
it's not uncommon to get tight deadlines and be working late and, you know,
maybe content production gets delayed and then, Um, you know, getting
to approved by the director of the vice president gets delayed, but your time
to execute stays the same and it very can, you know, very easily
can become that kind of crunch time. And so, for all the reasons
we talked about, it is a great thing to do. But in turn,
by doing that, you're also kind of setting your own boundaries and saying,
you know, a little bit of a self respect thing. You're like
no, this is what's okay and this is what's not and anyway. So,
yeah, I think all those things I recommend others if they're struggling with
it. Definitely try to approach it that way and I think you'll definitely notice
a difference. Excellent advice. Thanks so much on that, Chris. Are
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more about prince tax savings at Taylor Dot Com. Let's flip over to maybe
some specifics here. Um, let's talk a little bit about legion. So,
uh, so, many marketing operations leaders, obviously, particularly in I
think in in B two B organizations, struggle with legion. So what would
have been sort of key or the most, you know, impactful lessons that
you've learned along the way? Uh, to maximize success with with legion?
Yeah, Um, I would say, you know, this is something that
you're seeing more and more. I think we talked about in the industry for
B Two B marketing, but more revenue marketing and stop just focusing on the
M Quel number right, focus more on like how many are actually turning into
close one deals and revenue coming in. And so, with that being said,
I think the excuse me, the quality over the quantity right any day
of the week. Hypothetically, my M Q l goal was two m quels
a month. I don't care if I only generated a hundred, but I
hit the revenue goal or one above and beyond it, and so I think
that's something that Um, you know a lot of people that maybe are struggling
with some legion tactics. Really start thinking about it that way and work it
backwards. Okay, here's my you know, here's all the leads that I
closed one deals last month. What channels were they digesting the content on?
What were their lead source values? What campaigns had influence and then getting there
and really trying to understand that and, you know, just just mapping that
back to your promotional strategies and your efforts. Okay, Great. So,
hypothetically, you know, all my marketing source revenue last month came in from
paid social. Okay, great, what are we doing there? How do
we do more of that? What was the content that we promoted, that
people were digesting, so on and so forth. So I think that's uh,
maybe a little bit of a mindset shift that. I don't think it's
earth shattering, but I know, Um, there's been more and more talked
about in the world of BB marketing over the last couple of years, Um,
and you know, listening to some folks like, for example, like
Chris Walker refined labs and Um, you know, I know sometimes like Dave
Garahart talks about it and there's a whole bunch of people now that are kind
of embracing that mindset. But those are people that I follow that talked about
all the time and started to help shift my mindset about Oh right, what
if I generated all these M Q ls but none of them turned into closed
one opportunities? Well, I'm feeling good because I hit my legal but you're
not actually helping support the business right, and if those loans aren't converting in
the funnel, then that's not really giving you a good indication of how your
content strategy and promotions by channel were performing right. So I think that's that's
one of the things I would really um focus on as far as how to
approach legion and try to be a little bit more results driven. Um,
I think. Lastly, to you know, one of the things I've seen
is, you know, just taking off my marketing and ops hat and just
embracing it more like a marketer. Is that content strategy, and what I
mean by that is, Um, you can't be overly sales e. you,
you, you know. I think modern day approach that's very effective.
And B. Two B is just objectively trying to educate your audience without the
you know, the bait and switch of like hey, time to meet with
tales right. Just make it your focus. Of I just want to add
value to you guys by educating you on what's going on the types of solutions
out there. Yes, we sell that too, but there's other people and
here's what works best and here's what doesn't. It's kind of based upon where
you're at and just you know, when you approach a situation objectively like that,
you're gonna Position Your brand as a thought leader, you're gonna Position Your
brand as an expert and the buyer is going to feel more comfortable coming back
to you when they have questions about it, knowing that there isn't some sales
rep ready to jump on them right, and so I think that's another thing
I would encourage a lot of companies to do as well. Is, if
you're not doing that already, it is kind of becoming the best practice and
one of the trends. And and think about that through your content production,
my top of funnel content and my bottom of funnel content, and then the
channels, right, like how I'm doing this over video versus an e book,
versus a Webinar versus a podcast. Just bring it all full circle and
uh, you know, understanding, of course, where your buyers are digesting
that content. So I know I kind of threw a lot out there,
but I hope that answers it. It totally does. And you know,
and I think this this Um uh your your point about content is is really
fascinating, because there's uh I think it was Gardner had some recent research,
and I think it was pre covid Gardner had research that showed that seventy percent,
seven zero of the B two B buyer journey happens through self service,
without ever talking to a sales rep. Uh. They redid that research at
the end of one and the number had jumped from seventy percent to seventy eight
percent. Now, part of that, of course, could be, you
know, in you know it's Covid, more people working remotely, uh,
you know, et Cetera. But if you look at that research where seventy
eight percent of a B Two b buyers there, that journey happened self,
service researching on their own without ever talking to the sales rep and then the
sales rep actually takes them through the last that puts tremendous pressure on to your
very point about content strategy and content marketing. So, you know, I
think the lessons that you talked about here, I think it's really, really
key. But can you, can you build on that a little bit in
terms of like how do you make sure that the content that you're creating is
actually what your buyer needs, you know, when they need it, and
that it's actually going to help them, you know, propel themselves through the
through the sales funnel? So any advice on that, Chris? Yeah,
for sure, I would say, and I imagine a lot of companies product
marketing teams are likely doing this, but interviewing buyers in the marketplace, whether
they are a client, whether they're a prospect, you're able to get fifteen
minutes on their calendar, but just sitting down with them and speaking to them
and almost if you were like a survey, right, and like gathering that
type of real real time data speaking with them. I think that's a great
way to try to understand like how do you like to digest content? Right,
where do you go when you're trying to educate yourself on a business problem
and how it can be solved? I think that's one way. Now,
obviously a little bit easier said than done to go a meet off with a
hundred and fifty or whatever significant sample size of your buyers, right, but
that's definitely one good way to do it and I think another way to about
as far as how they're digesting content, where you can get the data pull
it. Right. So, are people digesting a lot of my content on
social? You know, obviously we can look at impressions, we can look
at clicks, you can use track links at some of that data in your
automation system. Right. Um, how are people getting to my website and
downloading that content? Was it from a social post? Wasn't from paid search?
Right, was it from organic search? Um, wasn't from my newsletter,
and I think you know. Lastly, Um, it's, it's.
It's a really good point you bring up in Um, you know, don't
mean to keep going back to it, but some of the stuff that I
see a lot of people talking about is, uh, this new thing dark
social right, and I think the cool thing about that is it's really really
talking about all these interactions that happened with B two B buyers and where they're
learning, where they're getting ideas sparked, and it's not being tracked to traditional
attribution softwares. So, for example, Um, maybe I heard, uh,
someone discussed a solution on the art of marketing, excuse me, art
of Marketing Operations Podcast, and that sparked me to go to that company's website.
Attribution software is not gonna be able to track that, right. They're
probably gonna Lael me as like an organic search lead based upon a Google referralil
referral. You are right, and so I think that's another huge thing that's
happening today too, is, you know, people are are learning about stuff
through community chat forms, for example, mark market donation. Right. I
can go through read little blogs and like Oh wow, that's where that person
solved it, and that's what sparked me to go to that website. Or
learning from a podcaster. You know, all these different areas linkedin comments,
right, just going through those and see what people say and, Um,
it's it's not exactly fool proof, but one way you can try to track
that is maybe putting on one of your lead capture forms. How did you
hear about us? Free text form and just letting people tell you, oh,
I heard about you in a podcast, right, and so I think
that's another really good way, if you can collect that data, to understand
this is where my buyer is hearing about me, and also that's where they
digested that intent, and that might completely change where you're putting your marketing dollars
into promotional efforts. Yeah, that's excellent. Now, you you mentioned in
your last response, you mentioned a little bit about, you know, automation
systems and so forth. So, uh, automation an important component for you
in terms of, you know, your marketing operations efforts, and are you
feeling that you're you're you're you're sort of striking the right balance between having enough
automation, you know, but not too much that it, you know,
potentially complicates the buyer journey or or messes with the buyer journey per se?
Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I think, you know,
as a starting point it's like we we you know, part of our roles.
You have to be able to spot some inefficiencies, right, so really
understanding. Okay, great, maybe I have a general awareness nurture track that
tries to warm up leads and progress them through the funnel, but just really
being able to take that step back and just say, where are things inefficient?
Where is there constantly manual intervention and does that make sense? Does a
dot? You know, and obviously this can be very dependent upon who your
buyer is and and and the buyer personas maybe your organization has multiple buyer personas,
where you can't do these kind of one sits, one size fits all
automation processes, and maybe you have to make it more highly customized. So
where I'm going with that is I think ultimately, Um, once you start
to really learn Your Business and the buyer of your product, you're gonna be
able to start to identify, Oh, here's some virtual tracks that are applicable
to everyone and I can start to create some automated processes between lead scoring and
how they're getting routed to sales alerts going off, how they go from email
one in the cadence to maybe email three, if they're gonna be skipping around
as opposed to if it's very, very custom excuse me, you have a
lot of different buyer profiles and you have to create more customized options. At
some point there might be automation that's actually hindering you because you're trying to use
automated processes almost as a catch all to fit everyone and get them to progress
through. But that might not work for a certain buyer persona and there might
have to be some human manual intervention to deliver the most value and get that
best customer experience. So I would say that, you know, obviously isn't
so very big proponent of marketing automation. I try to avoid that where I
can. I try to establish processes and and allowing Um, you know,
allowing it to work for everyone. But again I think it's highly dependent upon
you know, Your Business and your customers. But I think again, trying
to approach it a little bit more like a marketer, we need to be
thinking how do we deliver the most value? What is the best customer experience
within reason of okay, maybe I should sacrifice a little automation to help deliver
that more value, you know. Yeah, well, and I liked your
comment there too, about making sure that you understand the buyer persona. Uh
and there's you know, if you understand that, you know to your point,
certain buyer personas this is going to really resonate with others, does need
more of a, you know, a direct touch. So I think that's
good. Um. Now so, Chris, another another thing that I think
is interesting, particularly about your current role, uh and, and that is
the roles of both partnerships and event more getting so let's talk about partnerships first.
Um. So, obviously I know partnerships is an important component of your
current marketing mix and potentially maybe in your previous career experiences. So can you
share any advice on, you know, how how to Incorporate Partnership Marketing,
uh, you know, into you know aspects of a company's overall marketing strategy?
Yeah, absolutely, Um, one of the ways that I like to
identify this is, you know, I'd start and say there's always some obvious
partnerships out there. Right. Maybe there's some really strategic media partners that it's
like, Oh, I know the audience they have is full of my buyers.
I gotta I gotta get them to sponsor one of my webinars, or
I gotta get them to come sponsor or speak on my my podcast, whatever
the case is. Some of that's obvious and it's like a no brainer.
But I think in general of the way that I like to approach it is
working backwards from your goals and understanding what, here's what I can achieve with
my internal resources and here's what I can write. And so knowing, okay,
you know, hypothetically, my gonna go this month is a million dollar
source from marketing, based upon my database size, average conversion rates from emails,
how they how those converted leads turn to M Q wells progress through my
funnel and turning to close one opportunities. I can only achieve that with my
internal resources, maybe from lucky little higher. Well, that leaves the Delta
Right. Well, how am I going to go find another half million dollars?
And that's a great way to start spotting. I bet if I worked
with a partner and you know, maybe they hosted and sponsor to Webinar,
they might be able to help attract other industry leaders as speakers, increase my
reach right, get more people to register and, Um, you know,
try to get more leads to my funnel, and I think that's one way.
I would encourage folks to really think about it. It's just understanding.
Here's what I can achieve with my internal resources, here's what I can't.
Okay, great, let's look at the areas that maybe a little bit weaker
in and then I could use a partner to help, whether it's with events
and trade shows, whether it's what's Webinars, you know, podcast, whatever
the case is. But I think that's a good way to start to think
about. Okay, I need a partner. Now I need a hone in
on which one is the right one. But you're slowly refining into the right
area, right channels of where you're looking for those partners. And then,
of course, lastly, hopefully you have the marketing budget to help support it,
you know, pay for it right well, and I think this,
uh, this is an interesting tie to what you mentioned earlier about thinking like
a CEO, thinking like a Cmo and always sort of having, Um,
the revenue context. Uh, you know in mind your comment earlier about,
you know, prioritizing requests based on, you know, through the Lens of
revenue and Revenue Goals. Uh. And so you're coming here about partnerships.
is a really, really good one because, uh, it's one thing to
launch off a partnership, it's another thing to to manage an event. But
by starting with the revenue goal and seeing where the delta is, based on
existing resources existing investment, will you get there? And if you can't get
there, then you know, this is an interesting way of looking at partnerships
and events because, you know, it's not that you're just, you know,
forming a partnership or planning, you know, a special marketing event just
to do it. You're literally doing it through the Lens of, again,
the revenue context. And if you don't think that you can make those goals,
here's a lever that you can pull that gets you there. So I
love how you look at that from, you know, again through that Revenue
Lens. It's sort of this consistent theme, you know, throughout our chat
today. Um, and I just love how you're using those as the levels
that you need to achieve the revenue goal. Yeah, no, thank you
very much and right, and I think, Um, we might, we
might touch on this in a little bit, but I think, Um,
I think you're going to see more and more likely over the next ten,
ten plus years, a lot more CMOS coming from a marketing ops background and
I think, you know, for a lot of other marketing ops folks out
there that are wondering, what does my career trajectory look like? Do I
want to do marketing up forever? Do I ever want to try something else?
I think, once again, just encouraging folks to really start thinking more
like that and you're going to get more trust from senior leaders. Oh,
they're not just siloed in the world of marketing ops, data technology and reporting.
They're able to take more of that global view and understand that, of
course, cash flows the life blood of the business, and so you know,
you have to be able to start thinking that way to Um to better
do your job, better serve your company, but also be more applicable for
those promotions when they show up. Right yeah, and just be ready for
that exactly. Uh So, Chris, before we wrap up today's episode,
what is the main takeaway that you want to leave our audience with? Understanding
the challenges facing marketing operations executives today. Yeah, you know, I would
say I think a big part of it is kind of like we're going on
earlier about that career trajectory. I firmly do believe that's a challenge that I've
seen for myself and I think for other marketing ops people, is you start
to wonder gets a little easy to be capped out right. Like to be
very candid, you don't see too too many director of marketing ops or vice
president marketing ops. Of course they're out there, maybe more so at larger
companies that have larger marketing teams, but I think there's a lot of us
out there that do start to wonder, okay, I've been doing this for
getting close to a decade. I'm at the manager senior manager mark the salaries
that come along with that. Where do I go from here? Do I
just kind of stay stagnant here for the rest of my career? How do
I get to that next level? And I think again embracing more of a
revenue centric mindset Um, trying to think a little bit more like a CEO
Cmo, put yourself into the other departments of marketing, events, branding,
content generation, try to learn the ropes, get to help them. Uh.
And then networking too. You need to be good friends, of course,
with your senior leadership team. You need to be in close contact with
your fellow marketing colleagues. Become best friends with sales, become friends with your
product team. Uh, these are all things that, I think, again,
one can start to do that over time, you world start to get
it at a bit more and how marketers function, and not just marketing ops,
and I think again, all of that will make you more valuable and
make you seem more applicable to becoming, and say, a director of marketing
or a VP of marketing or one day becoming a CMO. And so,
yeah, I just think that's that's kind of the one that comes top of
mind to me for marketing operations executives and challenges we face is where do I
go from here? How do I not stay stagnant? How do I keep
growing? That is excellent advice, Chris. I appreciate that so much.
Well, this wraps up this episode of the art of marketing operations. Thanks
so much for joining us today, Chris. Absolutely thank you for having me.
Well, until next time, everyone stays safe, take care and thank
you. For listening. Thank you for listening to the art of marketing operations
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